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~ Martin ~
It still allow in the UK to wear anything - no illegal, maybe depend on country, I was wear tights and denim mini skirt that seem to be allow in public Ive wearing many time as cops passing me without stop or ask anything
~ Doug ~
In the US it's illegal to be dressed indecently, but not illegal to crossdress. Also, where would you draw the line? Some people might claim that all the boys wearing girls skinny jeans are crossdressing.
~ Rod ~
is it legal to crossdress when outside as a female
~ Andy M ~
epilators have been suggested. I've just bought a Braun and done my first epilate session. So far so good, but still a long way from hair free legs (which are essential for any tights wearing!!!)
~ Adrian ~
With winter on the way I shall be cutting down on heating bills by wearing opaque tights with a wool kilt.
~ 2craze2 ~
@badleg: Try Elbeo Sheer Magic or Elbeo Caresse. Size XL is available. They really do help...
~ 2craze2 ~
Ordered some tights from Emilio Cavallini, they're great! Good stretch, warm, opaque. Good replacement for my regular sock-wearing.
~ kingrichards ~
hi guys,new UK bodybuilder here, looks like a decent forum with lots of good info - hopefully i can contribute & learn.
~ Lucky ~
Men should wear tights for any reason also protect from blood flow that quite important, I do wear all time, love it. I wear with skirt that nornmal clothes
~ hoseclad ~
Hi to all, glad to see im not the only one out there,though i was all alone for for a long time. best reguards.

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Changing Reasons II

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Men wearing tights - the objections - IV

posted Wednesday, 12 August 2009

Geradenby Geraden

 

It is some time since I posted on the subject of religious and moral objections to wearing tights. However someone wrote to me recently:

Just thought I'd send you these verses from the New Testament which imply men wearing pantyhose/tights isn't a good idea.  They don't seem to be in the objections part of the blog.

[1] Corinthians 6, verses 9 and 10, and Galatians 5, verses 19 to 21

I'm a christian and like wearing pantyhose, but these verses scare me somewhat.

I'd be interested in your comments

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This post is really addressed to those who share the conservative-evangelical Christian view, that the Bible is the infallible word of God. For them it is important to understand and follow the teachings of Scripture.

First of all it must be said that nowhere does the Bible give a clear prohibition, "a man shall not wear tights". Religious objections are therefore based on deductions from what the Bible does say, and from deductions from those deductions.

It is true that I did not include the above references from I Corinthians and Galatians in my earlier articles, and I will try to explain why. I started with Deuteronomy 5:22. What we have there is (or appears to be) a general prohibition against wearing a garment of the opposite sex. In contrast, the New Testament passages, I Corinthians 6:9 and Galatians 5:19, do not mention any kind of clothing, much less do they prohibit the wearing of anything. 

I Cor 6:9 deals with types of people (those who cannot inherit the Kingdom of God) while Gal 5:19 deals with certain behaviours: those that are described as fruits of the flesh.

From the point of view of the evangelical Christian, for these to amount to a binding prohibition against man wearing tights, the following would have to be true:

  1. a man wearing tights comes within the definition of one or more of the behaviours in question
  2. and, in the case of I Cor 6:19, the exercise of one of the behaviours in question, even on a once-only basis, impresses a particular character upon a person, so as to exclude that person from inheritorship of the Kingdom of God.

If we look at the words used, however, the matter is far from clear. Taking Gal 5:19 first - the relevant words are 'uncleanness' and 'lasciviousness'. It is not immediately obvious why the wearing of tights would constitute either uncleanness or lasciviousness, when considered on its own apart from any question of motive.

I Cor 6:19 mentions, as one of the non-inheritors of the Kingdom of God, the 'effeminates'. In the original Greek, the word 'effeminates' is the masculine plural adjective 'malakoi', so we can be sure it applies to the male sex and we are probably safe in assuming also that it excludes the female sex. But what does it mean? And is it the case that a man wearing tights automatically fits into this category?

The word  'malakoi' means literally 'soft men'. The most probable meaning in this context is 'pretty boys', catamites, male prostitutes. It is surely significant that 'malakoi' comes in the list between 'moicoi' (aduterers) and '¢rsenokoitai' ('liers with men' i.e. those who use the services of the effeminates). Clearly 'malakoi' means something much more serious than the wearing of a particular garment.

Personally I think that none of these biblical verses condemns the wearing of tights by a man, considered apart from the reasons why he wears them.

From the standpoint of pastoral theology I would say however that there are two things that Christians need to guard against in this context. One is living on the level of the flesh, and the other is idolatry. Wearing of tights could be associated with either of these: whether or not in any particular case it is so associated, is for the individual's conscience to decide.

So to my correspondent I would say,  Do not be scared about what you are wearing! However, if your conscience tells you either that wearing tights ties you to life on the level of the flesh to the exclusion of Life in the Spirit, or that your attitude towards tights amounts to idolatry, then maybe you should consider changing your wearing habits.

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1. Bankman left...
Friday, 14 August 2009 3:51 pm

Interestingly, I have also recently given this some thought! The Deuteronomy text is clearly against cross-dressing, but we today are not Jews under the Old Testament law, though we shouldn't lessen the force of it because of this.

There are, I believe, some New Testament passages relevant to this topic. 1 Cor 6 v 12 is one - "All things are lawful for me" but I will not be enslaved by anything. Such slavery can be a problem with male tights wearers: you don't need to surf far to find that out. I Cor 11 is another passage where we can get the mind of the apostle on this. Whatever your view on veils and hats, it is clear that God wants the distinction between male and female maintained, and one way of doing this is seen in hair length. Women have long hair and men have short hair. "Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride?" I would submit that the parallel with tights (UK sense!) is that publicly to be seen wearing sheers is not 'honouring' your masculinity, because they are designed with making women look attractive in mind. That this is not entirely natural for men is seen in the fact so many men do not want anyone to know that they wear, or would not wear around relatives or at work. In other words, they feel there is something 'degrading' about it.

Wearing thicker tights for warmth when they are not seen or are indistinguishable from socks is another matter, and I haven't made up my mind on this one. Such tights could become unisex. I have binned all my 20 den tights in the light of the verse I quoted, as though in my case never seen, they are too feminine, coupled with having read too many men on the net who virtually worship tights or see acceptance of this as the first move towards wearing all sorts of other female attire. I wouldn't want to be associated with all that.

I might change my mind when the cold cycling weather comes!! So: publicly no, when unseen a qualified 'might be OK'. I'm still mulling....


2. Antrimman left...
Saturday, 15 August 2009 6:10 am

In the verses mentioned, the premise for the wearing of tights by a man being sinful is that they are a 'woman's garment and make the man 'effeminate'. However, history shows us that tights were not exclusive to the female gender, so that logic falters for me at the first hurdle.

As someone with a faith in God I can't believe for a moment that a mother giving her 8 year old son tights to wear on a snowy day in winter will have instantly threatened eternal salvation. I don't mean that to sound flippant, it's just that the bible doesn't give me any sense of needing to seek forgiveness for wearing them then, or for wearing them now as an adult.

My wearing tights is part of the minutiae of my domestic life and likewise I just can't see this registering on the spiritual radar come judgement day.


3. arcim left...
Saturday, 15 August 2009 8:07 pm

I scratch my head..... Even if we don't think so.....Every part of our life is controlled.....Especially Fashion....

The very powerful media controls what we wear.....How do you think that people around the world start wearing the same sort of fashion...

Unless the media says that it is ok for men to wear tights....We will always have problems about wearing them....


4. Bankman left...
Tuesday, 18 August 2009 4:14 pm

Antrimman - I don't think tights (or long hair for that matter!) is a salvation issue unless it is something a person who has got a 'thing' about is absolutely unwilling to give up.

I think the verse prohibiting men from wearing women's clothing is clear, and not a matter of interpretation, this often being used as a way to get round what it actually says. But you are right that what constitutes male or female clothing is not stipulated, and will vary from culture to culture. A kilt is a male garment. It is also true that men wore a garment similar to tights in previous centuries, and that some tights are acceptable today as non-female garments, for example, sports tights. My point was asking whether something like modern nylon sheers, which you can argue really are only a female garment, are therefore unacceptable for men who take the bible seriously. I appreciate there is a cultural aspect to this, but there is no clamour for men to have the 'right' to wear make-up or carry a handbag. It might yet be that tights do become genuinely unisex, in which case the Deut passage would no longer apply as guidance (as we are not under the law).

Discreetly worn tights is one issue, but public wearing of sheers with shaved legs is on a par with a man having long hair. It is not the garment in itself that is the problem, it is in any way being effeminate. So the question is, to what extent are tights today seen as male attire?


5. Antrimman left...
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 5:21 pm

Hi Bankman, you're taking me into territory I haven't ventured into before, simply because tights for me are an inconsequential part of everyday life. My wife doesn't have a problem, it isn't promoted to the forefront of conversation, it just really doesn't matter. When I came across Geraden's blog (by chance), I knew that most men don't wear tights (through convention), but was nonetheless surprised that it was such an issue for those that do and that the issue would be such a focus for their introspection and self-justification against society's norms.

Anyway, your question is quite specific. In response, I think your comment 'it might yet be that tights do become genuinely unisex' is of the utmost importance. As language is defined by common usage, so is dress convention. Your question 'to what extent are tights today seen as male attire?' is time-bound. When women started wearing 'bloomers', it was greeted with moral outrage. Fast forward 150 years and absolutely no notice would be taken of a woman in trousers. You might argue that this example is a matter of practicality rather than an attempt to look 'manly' (is there a word for this, ie. the opposite of effeminate? - butch doesn't fill the gap for me!). I would argue that you only need to peruse fashion magazines to see that 'manly' is a style amongst many that women recreationally aspire to.

Where does that leave us? I'm not sure, I just feel that if I regulated my life according to current (and ultimately transient) convention rather than against my internal 'compass' which is borne of Bible, upbringing, experience and a whole host of other things, I would not wear tights at all, let alone wear sheers on shaved legs.


6. Doug left...
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 6:14 pm

As others have mentioned, what's considered conventional clothing for men and for women varies both across cultures and in a single culture over time. The obvious example for us is that in the past (such as the time of Shakespeare) tights were conventional clothing for men. That indicates to me that the basic act of wearing a given article of clothing is neutral. Whether wearing the clothing is sinful or not depends entirely on the person's motivation behind wearing it. For example, suppose I wear tights as part of a costume for a Rennaisance Faire, or as an actor in a play, just considering tights as an expected part of the costume. That seems entirely harmless to me. Suppose a man carefully dresses to look as much as possible like a women, including tights and paying close attention to every detail of his appearance. Even that can be harmless if all he had in mind was trying to win the prize for best costume at a Halloween party. On the other hand, if he were dressing that way before going to bar, with the hope he could deceive some men into thinking he was a woman, that would be sinful. But it would be sinful not due to the clothing itself, but due to the intent to deceive. Some Biblical scholars think the passage in Deuteronomy refers to that kind of dressing. In my opinion, as long as your motives are pure, clothing and other aspects of your appearance would not be sinful.


7. Keith Smithe left...
Wednesday, 26 August 2009 11:52 pm

As the guy who started this thread I have studied these scriptures further and have come to similar conclusions. It seems to me that in the time that these verses were written ( In Corinth), sexual practices such as homosexuality and sodomy were a big issue and most probably why these verses came about. Since I don't wear tights to attract men for sex (either passive or active) and still very much like a man when wearing them, I can't see how what I'm doing is any different from how women have confused the difference between the sexes e.g by having short hair, wearing men's style clothing, leadership in churches ( the list goes on). Yet nothing has been said about how this is un-biblical and sinful. The fundamentalists who object to this can and will take scripture out of its original context to suit which box they want to put you in, all the while saying that we all put God in a box. Maybe the needless guilt and shame that society puts on us because we don't fit in their box is just as sinful as what they think we're doing...