Nonsense from No Nonsense

by Geraden

No Nonsense, one of America's volume brands of mid priced hosiery, is owned by Kayser-Roth.

A few years back, before on-line buying took off in the way it has, Kayser-Roth did some research into thesuch evidence, there has always been a studied public indifference to male customers from most of the major hosiery companies. Would things ever change? We thought it had happened at last.

At the end of January 2007 a series of advice pages for men appeared on the No Nonsense website. There was no fuss and no trumpets, and the pages were not linked from the main No Nonsense website. But it seemed a good start.

I published an article called 'No Nonsense about No Nonsense ' on 31 January.

There was some discussion in the forums as to whether the men's pages were a genuine initiative by No Nonsense, or a hoax, or the work of a rogue employee. Several people sent off e-mails (supportive, enquiring etc) to the web marketing manager at Kayser Roth.

From replies to those e-mails it turns out that the pages were genuine enough. They were the initiative of a forward-thinking and creative web marketing manager, called Karen Stubbs. She put up four 'landing pages' on the No Nonsense website, giving support and advice to male customers, while acknowledging that most of them were in fact buying for themselves.

Meanwhile, my article had elicited a comment from NoNonsensegirl herself, who said:

Thu 1 Feb 2007, 8:32 pm
Hi,
I'm the web marketing manager for www.Nononsense.com. We launched the men's pages this week as external landing pages to the site. We made this decision after we had some email communications and phone calls with a few men purchasing from the site.

We did notice men are buying our products.

This is our first attempt and it appears we need to make some changes to the pages so everyone is aware that these pages are real pages on nononsense.com. Our current site doesn't allow the flexibility to add a men's category, nor do we have products (outside a few socks) specifically designed for men.

We did notice and we do care.

Whether we will be able to incorporate a men's specific shopping experience, I can't tell at this time.

I'm happy to start a dialog with anyone who wants to ask questions. My email address is webmarketingmanager@nononsense.com.

Suggestions are welcomed.

We care and this was what we thought was a polite way to acknowledge men buying hosiery.

regards,

nononsensegirl

In e-mail correspondence, Karen enquired about the LAUF Forum, and I was able to point her in the right direction. She joined the forum as NoNonsensegr and engaged in a discussion both there and on my blog about hosiery as unisex clothing. Everything was looking very positive for a couple of weeks.

However on 17th February the men's pages disappeared as suddenly as they had appeared.

In response to my enquiries, Karen said in an e-mail to me dated 19.02.2007, "Yes, the pages are temporarily down. Seems that some of the content (can reduce swelling) is a medical claim, and NN doesn't have the right to use such claims. I'll be working on updated copy and get them back up in a few days!"

The same day Karen also posted on LAUF

Hi all!

Yes, the pages are temp down on the site. Seems I put copy in the pages about 'can reduce swelling etc.' and was told to take down until I can correct, and this time, my boss wants to see the page(s).

Hmm-was a good try to get something done and at least there was so much noise of it on the internet, via email and calls, that it got noticed in the office.

I've been told that we don't have a strategic direction for a men's line, but that I can market online to men market. (here's hoping that at the end of the day, we'll sell whatever we should to whomever wants to wear)

So, please bear with me as I get the rest of my work done and re-do the pages.

Nononsensegirl

On 2nd March she posted a more positive update, indicating that the legal problems had been resolved:

I reduced to one page as some emails suggested. Some of the info was repetitive and I decided to follow some advice. Legal cleared the pages. As long as we weren't making medical claims, and said 'men have emailed us' our legal department was happy with it. They are with my programmer now and we hope to have deployed by end of weekend or early next week.

However shortly after that, on 20th March a LAUF Member, Stockingman, published the gist of an e-mail he had received from Karen.

I received an email from her with the following information on it to be passed on to all of you.

She has been asked by top management NOT to participate in any forums currently.

The pages were taken down for legal reasons. I don't know what they were nor did she state same.

She apologizes for any excitement it caused and any eventual negatives that it may incite. She hopes that the men who've tried the product will continue to support the brand.

She will also be exploring options to continue to find a way to support men and hosiery.

She said to thank all of you for your support and consideration. 

Karen had said that the men's pages would be back in a few days. It appeared that the lgal problems had been resolved. But the few days lengthened into weeks.  After a month I thought it was time to see what was happening.

From: geraden@gmail.com
23 March 2007 08:55 *
To: Webmarketingmanager - nononsense

Dear Karen

I keep looking for the return of the No-nonsense men's pages. Surely a little legal quibble over quasi-medical claims could have been sorted out by now?

Or is it true that there is more to it than that, as the people on the LAUF forum seem to believe? Have you been sat on by senior management?

Your men's pages could have done your company a whole lot of good.

So far, the attitude of male hosiery wearers towards No-nonsense has been supportive and very patient. I sense that this is coming to an end.

Does your management not understand that male wearers have power – not only in a positive but also in a negative sense? Through your praiseworthy efforts, Karen, a major hosiery company started to acknowledge the 40% of its customers who are male (a figure that I believe to have come from a Kayser-Roth survey several years ago). That made us well disposed towards No Nonsense as a brand. If that major hosiery company chooses to let us down us now, it is making a big mistake.

I do not want to add to your personal troubles at work, because you did great service to male wearers, and that will not be forgotten. It will be nothing personal against you if male hosiery wearers now turn against No-nonsense.

I am sending this to your company email address, but in case for some reason it does not reach you, I am sending it also to you via your LAUF profile.

Please reply, and let me know what in your reply can be published and what is confidential.

It there is any way my fellow male wearers and I can help you, you only have to ask. We admire your initiative and your stance and do not want you to have to suffer for it.

Regards

Geraden 

Karen replied briefly to the effect that she would e-mail me privately in the next 24 hours. However she did not do so, and though I have sent her a further e-mail there has been no contact at all.

So what are we to make of all this?

Firstly that Karen is a great person who thinks outside the box. As a web marketing manager, she understands that online hosiery sales can be especially attractive to men. That is because many potential male wearers of hosiery might feel uncomfortable going into a lingerie department, let alone buying tights or pantyhose from there.

She has had the courage to act on her convictions and has engaged in discussion with her customers here and in the forums. She has shown that she is willing to listen and learn. In so doing has earned the admiration of the male hose wearing community, particularly in the USA, but also worldwide.

Secondly that the people in charge of Kayser-Roth are dinosaurs and bullies. These dinosaurs have failed to appreciate what an asset they have in Karen and they think nothing of alienating their male customers (40%, remember?). These bullies have gagged her, prevented her from developing her male webpage initiative, and maybe worse, who knows? Certainly she is afraid to say anything to us, even in confidence.

I am not a No Nonsense customer – the brand is not available in Britain. But I would not be buying it if it were. I am disgusted at what Kayser-Roth has done.

In my opinion, we male wearers need to make it clear that the male hosiery wearing world is right behind Karen, and not at all behind Kayser Roth. Maybe if a few (hundred) Kayser Roth customers wrote or e-mailed the company the message might get across.

And Karen, I know that you cannot say anything, but your friends in the male hose-wearing world will not forget you, a true pioneer.  

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tags: no nonsense  kayser roth  mens pages  karen  

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