To be or not to be

In reply to the 2nd post from Malcolm. Malcolm is absolutely right in what he has written! I breathe a sigh of relief that there is someone else who believes most men intentionally suppress any thoughts of fetishism pertaining to wearing hosiery by way of giving a practical reason to wear tights and comment about it in open forums. If our desire to wear sheer nylon were not fetish driven, there would be absolutely no reason to go into lengthy discussion or comment about them whatsoever. To the genuine practical wearer, hosiery would be considered just another inanimate article of clothing worn for genuine purpose rather than stimulus effect. So why talk about them? If I go out and buy a pair of socks I don’t rush back to the computer, log on and join a sock forum? Neither will most of the genuine practical hosiery wearers have the slightest impulse to go find hosiery sites! I say most because there will be some who without doubt will be bitten by the fetish side of it all. And this is the male hosiery community online today 99.9 percent of men who say they wear hosiery for practical reasons are fooling themselves by hiding away their original fetish compulsions. Why lie about it? I can only believe that this masquerade is a big part of the excitement? The introduction to this blog states that it is not a fetish site? But in truth, it is exactly that. That’s not a bad thing but the blog should incorporate fetishism and talk about it openly! After all many people are in self denial about their own origins for wearing hosiery! Thanks, Al Beck

Malcolm and Al have made some interesting points about hosiery fetish.

It must be indisputable that nearly all male wearers of hosiery (myself included) started to wear because they found that it felt good to pull on a pair of tights. In many cases too, the fact that tights were associated with the female sex increased the excitement and fascination that these garments produced. In some cases the experience dates to well before puberty, and in many cases it continues well beyond the stage where tights in themselves cause sexual arousal.

This is why I have always drawn a distinction between the sensual and the sexual aspects of wearing tights.

Al has no need to join a sock discussion forum, though he could, if he were so minded, visit http://sockdreams.com. What makes tights different in this respect is that, unlike socks, tights are currently associated with one sex. No one gets bothered if, for whatever reason, a man wears socks; whereas plenty of people get bothered if a man wears tights.

Now fetish is one of those concepts where we need to be careful about definitions. How sensual or sexual does a thing have to be before it qualifies to be called a fetish?

Drinking fine wine is very sensual, but one hears little about wine fetishism. Likewise with food. When we come to clothing, if a woman enjoys putting on and wearing something soft and comfortable, she is rarely described as indulging a fetish. If a man does similar, the word fetish is often used.

Al uses fetish in a fairly wide sense, and so does Malcolm to a large extent. I tend to use it in a narrower sense – which I believe is the technically correct sense – of some external object that has to be present in order for a person to achieve orgasm. A sine qua non of sexual fulfilment, in other words. In that sense I would deny that I have ever had a hosiery fetish, and I imagine a large number of other male wearers would say the same.

Al says my site is a fetish site, despite what I have put on the home page. The line I take is that fetish, even in its strictest sense, exists. Certainly in the looser sense of something that is worn to promote sensual feeling and sexual arousal, most of my readers would come into that category. This blog acknowledges that. We will talk about it openly, as Al requests. What we do not do here is pander to fetish. We will not provide material to feed the fetish. There are plenty of sites that do that, and anyone is free to subscribe (often literally subscribe) to them if they wish.

This site is to support those who want to wear, and have their wearing accepted – not just by 'society' (for in the main society cares neither one way nor another) – but by our nearest and dearest who may very well take a much harsher view, when it is their man who is in question.

If anyone has a partner who is sympathetic to his hose wearing, he is unlikely to need this blog. If his partner is unsympathetic, where should he turn for help in trying to gain acceptance form her? Not to the dark background X and XX rated pantyhose fetish sites, that is for sure.

There is a spectrum of attitude towards male tights wearing. We have to downplay the f word, not because sensual enjoyment or even sexual enjoyment of hosiery is wrong, but because there is a very dark and seedy place at the other end of that spectrum. (Anyone want to buy a pair of stained, worn pantyhose, guaranteed unwashed?)

Question: why are mainstream hosiery manufacturers in denial about their male customers (who have been calculated to make up 40% overall, up to 90% online, of the customer base)? Answer: because they are scared of alienating their female customers, and the reason for that fear is the bogey of fetish.

Enjoy your sensual and sexual wearing if you can: if that is acceptable chez-vous. But give a thought to those who struggle to gain toleration, let alone acceptance.

Geraden

This is one of those sticky subjects (no pun intended). I can see where everybody is coming from when they posted. Geraden again hits the nail on the head. If we are looking for acceptance from our wives, we need not go to a seedy place, the kind of website where porn lurks. Now, do I get turned on while wearing hoisery, yes I still do, but I can and do also wear for practicle purposes, not just to get off.

Hi.. Below is a piece that i found about the word fetish...You might find interesting...To me wearing hose is not a fetish...But i feel there is nothing wrong in looking and feeling good about yourself..Even a bit sexy..Not a fetish

Cultural factors

Sometimes, whole cultures can develop the fetish to such an extent that it is no longer perceived as a fetish, but merely as a normal sexual desire; for example the commonplace "fetishes" for lingerie, or women lacking body hair.

Sometimes what a culture covers up eroticises the boundaries of what remains exposed. For example, a woman's ankle was considered erotic in late-Victorian England, and in many 3rd world countries it is not taboo for women to go without shirts.

In this regard, there can be said to be a degree of fetishistic arousal in the average person who responds to particular bodily features as sign of attractiveness. However, fetishistic arousal is generally considered to be a problem only when it interferes with normal sexual or social functioning. Sometimes the term "fetishism" is used only for those cases where non-fetishist sexual arousal is impossible.

Women and fetishism

Most of the material on fetishism is in reference to heterosexual men, with most of the objects fetishized being high-femme items such as lingerie, hosiery, and heels. Until recently there was little mention of women ever having fetishes.

However, the visual map of fetishes linked below flags several clusters as having a number of women admirers, such as corsetry and some of the medical-related fetishes. The preferences of women fetishists are not necessarily a mirror image of those of male fetishists; just because many men are attracted to women in high heels does not necessarily mean there are many women attracted to men in construction boots.

The book Female Perversions, which also discussed corsetry and self-cutting, in part discusses "female transvestism". It gave examples both of women who became excited by dressing in a "butch" way, i.e. the mirror image of male transvestic fetishism, and of women who became aroused by dressing in a very "femme" way, or parallel to male transvestic fetishism.

arcim

Acyclopath and Arcim

Thank you for your interesting comments. Clearly there is a difference over time and place in what might constitute a fetish. The case of hosiery is interesting, because as well as the fetish aspect of male wearing, there are also a number of non fetish reasons for wearing, which for some men are actually the main reasons: these may be occupational, or connected with sport or other leisure activities. There is also a whole set of health related reasons for wearing as well as other practical ones.

There is also a real movement to bring hosiery for men out of the closet and into the mainstream - I do not see this with other types of lingerie. In that respect male hosiery wearing is seems to be moving away from fetish towards alternative fashion choice. In this it is coming to be in a similar category to male skirt and kilt wearing, where the fetish aspect seems to be minimal.

The two do not necessarily go hand in hand, though they may do so. There are of course many more male hosiery wearers than skirt and kilt wearers (except possibly among certain nationalities where the kilt has always been a male form of dress.) The reasons for this are fairly obvious - male hosiery wearing can be a secret practice: one cannot as a man wear a skirt or a kilt and hope not to be noticed, except maybe in Scotland!

Geraden

The definition of sensual and Fetish is as quoted .. “Sensual. Adjective: 1. To do with physical pleasure. 2. Liking or suggesting physical or sexual pleasure”. “Fetish: Noun: Something that a person has an obsession about”. Geraden’s line of distinction between sensual and sexual is a very fine line indeed. I would be so bold as to say that reading his comment, ‘Putting on tights and feeling good’ and by adding weight to the argument by associating them with the female form is born from non other than a sexual desire! Because of the dogma attached to men wearing tights ‘sensual’ would be a word to consider steering clear of if there is to be no mistake about the usage of such a controversial garment!

The desire to wear tights through puberty and there after is again a sexual experience for the same reasons. It is done ‘not’ for the physical pleasure but solely for the sexual pleasure. Puberty is an absolute crucial time! It is a point of our life education where we become very sexually aware. Whatever we are doing ‘or seeing’ at that precise moment in time for stimulation will become a major influence for the rest of our lives. If we are honest with ourselves most of us begin to wear tights at a young age with a secret desire to know how it feels to wear them and in some aspects try to imitate what the opposite sex is feeling and experiencing wearing the same. We don’t pick a pair up and put them on because we want to play in the sandpit. We start to wear at an early age because of an exciting curiosity? We first put them on because of premeditated excitement that we know we shouldn’t be doing it but the lure is that they are going to feel good. And that lure is sexually driven! Did we not spend our teenage years coveting then courting the girl that wore the short skirts and tights? Do we not try and influence our wives to wear the same as we get older! And do the majority of us pray for the day when our wives and partners accept the fact that we want to wear tights openly with them. And secretly do we dream of the time when we can share this passion on a more intimate level. This behaviour can only be construed as a stepping stone to ‘sexual pleasure’. Several months ago I read a story by someone who liked to visit shopping malls wearing tights, specifically targeting girls to get a response? This is pure fetish, ‘Arguably’ at the extreme end of ‘fetish’ in the way the writer portrayed his motives. I am not shocked what was written but confused when reading the content from a blog that publicly promotes non-fetish and abstains from encouraging tights fetishism? Similarly an article by Kaj showing a sketch where he is ripping tights from a female would undoubtedly be interpreted by many as not having much to do in the way of a man wanting to wear tights for practical reasons. I have been a member of LAUF for a number of years ‘under a different name’ and find similar patterns with members there. I didn’t consciously start off analysing what members wrote, but there is a clear overwhelming similarity of fetishism that underpins the gist of their writing. Especially when recounting early years of hosiery wearing? I would have to argue against Geraden’s point that “male hosiery wearing seems to be moving away from fetish towards alternative fashion choice” Fetish is fuelling the fashion! We create reasons and excuses to wear tights for our own agenda. An example of this is:… ‘A nylon fetishist and keen walker mentions to his wife of feeling the cold on his legs when he goes out walking on the fell’. She suggests he wear tights under his trousers? He has in effect manipulated her to believe it is her idea to allow him to wear hosiery. To add weight to his wife’s practical use of him wearing tights, he tells her they are uncomfortable but will bare the irritation for the added warmth. Thus cancelling out any thoughts of a nylon fetish his wife may hold about him in the future!’ I believe that there is a similar thought process involved with hiding the fetish behind the hosiery fashion movement also. It is absolutely crucial to be completely ‘disconnect’ from any sexual connotations in order to be accepted in society to wear them. What better way to hide something that to put it right in the view of the public? Again, I have to reiterate that fetish is playing a major part in this movement. But people are not being truthful with themselves! “Hello, My name is Al. I have a tights fetish!” Its not that hard to say the truth. Who else wants to stand up and say it! Thanks, Al.

Al – interesting comment.

Correspondence on this blog and elsewhere has shown that there are three main stages in life when a man may start wearing tights. Childhood (around 6 years old) where the motivation is often curiosity, Puberty, where the motive is usually sexual arousal, and later in life where the practical and medical benefits come to the fore.

Whatever your definition of fetish, it seems to me to be going too far to say that fetish underlies all of these.

Many of us men started wearing tights for sexual reasons, which you can loosely call fetish if you will. I was one of those, admittedly, in my teens. Now in my 50s, tights are comforting, feel good and all that, but they do not on their own cause arousal. They are sensual rather than sexual, and as such are not fetish items.

Women on the other hand very rarely wear tights etc as a fetish – though they may wear them for other sexual reasons (such as attracting the other sex.)

Al might be happy with Tights Fetish Anonymous; others of us may not be. We want acceptance from our nearest and dearest for our clothing choices, and it is often the fetish association that gets in the way. That is why this site concentrates on non-fetish aspects of wearing tights and pantyhose as a unisex item.

Geraden