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~ Martin ~
It still allow in the UK to wear anything - no illegal, maybe depend on country, I was wear tights and denim mini skirt that seem to be allow in public Ive wearing many time as cops passing me without stop or ask anything
~ Doug ~
In the US it's illegal to be dressed indecently, but not illegal to crossdress. Also, where would you draw the line? Some people might claim that all the boys wearing girls skinny jeans are crossdressing.
~ Rod ~
is it legal to crossdress when outside as a female
~ Andy M ~
epilators have been suggested. I've just bought a Braun and done my first epilate session. So far so good, but still a long way from hair free legs (which are essential for any tights wearing!!!)
~ Adrian ~
With winter on the way I shall be cutting down on heating bills by wearing opaque tights with a wool kilt.
~ 2craze2 ~
@badleg: Try Elbeo Sheer Magic or Elbeo Caresse. Size XL is available. They really do help...
~ 2craze2 ~
Ordered some tights from Emilio Cavallini, they're great! Good stretch, warm, opaque. Good replacement for my regular sock-wearing.
~ kingrichards ~
hi guys,new UK bodybuilder here, looks like a decent forum with lots of good info - hopefully i can contribute & learn.
~ Lucky ~
Men should wear tights for any reason also protect from blood flow that quite important, I do wear all time, love it. I wear with skirt that nornmal clothes
~ hoseclad ~
Hi to all, glad to see im not the only one out there,though i was all alone for for a long time. best reguards.

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Denier - Art or Science?

posted Sunday, 7 January 2007

Geradenby Geraden

 

In the UK and Europe, hosiery packaging almost invariably gives a denier value – or an equivalent value in the continental decitex (dtex) measure. This is not the case in the USA, where you will find it hard to get any details about denier.

European hosiery consumers set a lot of store by denier, using the value as a proxy for a measure of weight or opacity, whereas Americans rely more on descriptive words such as sheer, day-sheer, semi-opaque and opaque. So who is right?

On the face of it the European system seems more precise and scientific, while the US descriptive words appear to be more subjective. However, the reality is a little more complicated than that.

One of the most obvious questions about any hosiery is whether it is sheer or opaque. In the US the answer to this question alone will determine whether the legwear is to be classed as pantyhose or tights. Pantyhose are sheer, tights are opaque - simple! Well, no, it is not quite so simple as that, and maybe that is part of the reason we Brits insist on calling both sheers and opaques tights. Opacity is of course related to the density of the fabric, and is dependent on many factors. The weight, composition and construction of the yarn, the type of knit and (to some extent) the dye colour are the main ones.

The science

Technically the definition of denier is the weight in grammes of 9,000 metres of yarn.

French silver denier, 9th cent.The denier was an old French silver penny coin. The term denier was originally used in the French silk industry, and passed over into use for artificial fibres. Thus 9,000 metres of 15 denier silk or nylon weighs 15 g. In British terms one denier is 8 1/5 grains, where 480 grains = 1oz = 28.375g.) So that is the weight sorted out! What about the thickness?

A human hair is typically 40 thou (100μ). A single filament 15 denier nylon yarn has a thickness of 1.7 thou (4.25μ). But hosiery is not made from single filament yarn any more. Yarns made from filaments of less than 1 denier are known as microfibre yarns. The filaments that comprise the yarn may be in the order of 0.5 den, though filaments of 0.2 den are not unknown. This is about one two-thousandth of an inch or less than 1.5μ.

When nylon yarns were first produced, they were simple, single filament yarns, and there was a close correlation between the denier of the yarn and the thickness of the knitted fabric. Hosiery yarns are now coiled, multi-filament, multi-fibre (typically nylon and elastane) and multi-layer (sheathed). The use of denier in any scientific sense would be far to comlpicated for marketing purposes. Yet British and European consumers are reluctant to give up the denier as a measure of hosiery weight and thickness.  

The art

8 den appearance

20 den appearance

All this means that the construction of the yarn is more important than the strict denier in determining thickness of the product. So where denier values are stated, if you read hosiery packet carefully, you will see that the value is often described not as 'denier' but as 'denier appearance'. This is especially true in Britain where the Trades Descriptions Act is in force.

So in fact the European system of denier appearance ratings is no more scientific than the narrative descriptions of thickness common on the other side of the Atlantic. To answer the question in the title, denier is more of an art than a science. Having said that, it is still a useful guide, though being subjective, there can be wide variations in interpretation.

Wolford Aura 5 denierIt is often said that ultra sheer is 10 den and less, sheer is 15 denier, day sheer is 20 denier, semi opaque is 30-40 denier and opaque is anything above 40 denier.

But even granted that denier is an art rather than an science, denier values do not correlate with the narrative descriptions in this way. This is because those descriptions relate to the sheerness or opacity of tights, and denier is still a measure of thickness rather than opacity. The assumption that tights of 30 denier and above are no longer sheer is not correct. Take Activskin A 569s. These are sheer support tights, but they are 70 denier. TSolidea Venere 140 denierhe highest denier sheer tights that I have come across, incredibly, are the Solidea Venere support tights from Italy: this range consists of sheer tights in 30, 70, 100, and (incredibly) 140 denier! Mention of these gives me an excuse to post a link to a rather nice commercial for these tights on Google Video.

The last two pictures are both of sheer tights packets, but one is 5 denier appearance and the other is 140 denier. I am not saying there is no diference between them, simply that both are described as sheer!

And that is just what the manufacturers say. Quite often when reviewing tights, I am amazed at variations in the denier ratings. I will give a few random examples to show what I mean.

  • The Vogue Harmony tights that I reviewed here recently were very similar to Falke Seidenglatt. The Harmony are rated 30 denier, the Seidenglatt are 15.
  • Recently I bought a couple of pairs of Wolfords. The Sheer 15 denier seemed sheerer than the Magic Touch 12 denier.
  • Activskin 2019s are rated 110 denier but look and feel more like 30 denier.
  • Falke Shelina are rated 12 denier but look more like 8 denier.
  • In Max Mara the Microfibra Opaques are rated 50 den but look more like 60 den; the Velato are rated 15 but are more like 10.

If that has not convinced you that the whole thing is so imprecise that it has to be taken with a large pinch of salt, nothing will.


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1. eugenetswong left...
Monday, 8 January 2007 12:54 am

I usually speak in terms of transparency. A pair of opaques is not transparent at all. A pair of ultra sheers is very transparent. I also give them a rating based on 1 to 100. 1 being invisible to the naked eye under "average" lighting, and 100 being super opaque, where even a bent knee is not transparent.

"Transparency" seems meaningful to me, because that is what most people want.

Also, it all should be said in the context of wearing hosiery at the correct size. If we wear a pair that is too big, then it will stretch less, and thus, be more opaque. If we wear a pair that is too small, then it will stretch more, and thus be more sheer.


2. Kaj left...
Monday, 8 January 2007 7:05 am

Yes, Geraden

I have also noticed that ‘den appearance’ information on some products. The package of Falke Shelina has the information‘8 denier appearance’, for example

I think the phoneme has partly to do with the current fashion trends. During the last 15 years bare legs have been the ultimate (heh) ideal (ok, opaques are now also very trendy, I know, I know). And although you have been wearing tights they have had to be as invisible as possible.

Of course those tights that are 15 denier, but look like 8 deniers should be quite attractive. They are at least more durable than real 8 deniers but have the same almost invisible appearnce. On the other hand no manufacturer would inform that their 15 denier tights have a 40 denier appearance. That would be ridiculous: Sheer and fragile tights that look durable but don’t last long.

___

Now I know why it was so difficult to me to find proper tights for me during our honeymoon in New York. The lack of denier information was really confusing. For a while I though that Americas do not use numbers at all. Next time I know what to look for.


3. Geraden left...
Monday, 15 January 2007 9:57 pm

I was wearing a pair of Lida Active Man tights today - the ones with sheer legs, built-in socks and a reinforced panty (sorry, brief). The socks look 100 denier; the legs 40 den and the brief 70 den. I have been assured however that the same yarn is used throughout, and that they are really 40 den all over. The difference is all in the knit!

Confused?


4. Tammi Moore left...
Monday, 23 February 2009 6:08 pm

All i know is this - on a special evening, either going or or staying in, my husband LOVES sheer, glossy, shiny, and the sheerer the better. He actually saves up money to give me specifically for sheer hosiery, especially pantyhose with no gusset or seams. And, call me oldfashioned at 34 years old, but men at work stare at my legs all the time - I am the only female in the office wearing nylons or pantyhose with skirts and dresses. Bare legs are fine but wow - I like what men think of me in sheer hosiery and heels!


5. Geraden left...
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 7:50 am

Tammi

Nice to get a woman's comment for once, and a positive one at that! You are quite right of course - men look at eye-catching legs, and what better way to catch the eye than by wearing attractive, good quality hosiery?

Why don't more women get this?

Geraden